Discussion Chapter 17 The Kite Runner
Chapter 17
Instructions:
A-F = Question 1
G-L= Question 2
M-R = Question 3
S-Z = Question 4
Based on your last name, answer the question. Then, after others have answers theirs, respond to TWO others and add your own thoughts about the question as well.
1. "Please think, Amir Jan. It was a shameful situation. People would talk. All that a man had back then, all that he was, was his honor, his name, and if people talked...We couldn't tell anyone, surely you can see that." He reached for me, but I shed his hand. Headed for the door. [...]
After Amir speaks to Rahim Khan, he starts to go over all the signs he didn't understand as a boy, but which are abundantly clear now. Why has his life been a lie? Explain or pick an inference.
2. What does Hassan's letter reveal about Afghanistan? Himself?
3. Chapter 18
"like father, like son" (p. 197). How far is this cliche true in relation to Amir and his Baba?
4. Describe what Amir is feeling on page 226.
Instructions:
A-F = Question 1
G-L= Question 2
M-R = Question 3
S-Z = Question 4
Based on your last name, answer the question. Then, after others have answers theirs, respond to TWO others and add your own thoughts about the question as well.
1. "Please think, Amir Jan. It was a shameful situation. People would talk. All that a man had back then, all that he was, was his honor, his name, and if people talked...We couldn't tell anyone, surely you can see that." He reached for me, but I shed his hand. Headed for the door. [...]
After Amir speaks to Rahim Khan, he starts to go over all the signs he didn't understand as a boy, but which are abundantly clear now. Why has his life been a lie? Explain or pick an inference.
2. What does Hassan's letter reveal about Afghanistan? Himself?
3. Chapter 18
"like father, like son" (p. 197). How far is this cliche true in relation to Amir and his Baba?
4. Describe what Amir is feeling on page 226.
Anna Mitchell
ReplyDeleteBoth Baba and Amir have sins that they haven't atoned for. They both " Betrayed the people who would have given their lives for us." (226) Amir betrayed Hassan that night in the alley and again when he planted the money and watch in his room. In my opinion Baba betrayed not only Amir but Hassan as well. He was a hypocrite and never told them the truth of how they were related to each other. Both Baba and Amir hurt the ones they loved the most. Baba and Amir are also similar in the aspect that rescuing Sohrab will forgive them both of their sin. "Rahim Kahn had summoned me here to atone not just for my sins but or Baba's too."(226)
This is a great perspective and point! The only thing I would add is that another way that Baba had betrayed the person who had given their life for him is by sleeping with Hassan's mother. By doingthis he betrays his beloved wife who has just passed giving birth to Amir. By coming to Sohrab's rescue, Baba could atone for the sins he has comitted involving his family.
DeleteI totally agree. But i feel like baba had to honor his name and if he told anyone that hassan was his son things could have gone down hill. but who knows. but there are arguments for both sides of the story. I do see the point of both.
DeleteLaShell- You used very good writing and words to describe how Amir felt and how after all he was very similar to his father and he never realized it until now. When Amir first heard the news about being related to Hassan he wished that he had never found out and that Rahim Khan had never called him. Amir soon after was happy that he called because he thought that getting Hassans son and bringing him to safety would pay for his sins.
DeleteJaydon Short
DeleteI really liked what you took from the book about the betrayal of the people who haven given life to us. I agree when you said Baba not only betrayed Amir but Hassan as well. And how he was a hypocrite and never told the truth of how they were related to each other. I think its really Interesting to think about the way baba thinks. And all of the things that must be going on in his head. Like in his mind or any of there minds Amirs as well how certain things can be twisted and flipped to seem okay or normal.
I agree that Amir and Baba both have sins that they need to atone for, and that going back to rescue Sohrab will help both of them. It also does seem unfair to both of the boys to have the fact that they are brothers, kept from them. That one fact could have potentially changed the whole story. - Shafer
DeleteI agree with this totally. Both Amir and Baba betrayed the ones closest to them and it haunted Amir for the rest of his life. Hiding the truth from Amir and Hassan was something that Amir would have never expected but I believe Baba's "no lying" theory was based on his own feelings and regret. He did not want Amir to make the same mistakes. -Grace Moellering
DeleteTo answer question four, Amir starts to feel like him and Baba turned out to be more alike than either of them thought. Amir realizes that, "Baba had been a thief" (p. 225). Baba had stolen the knowledge from almost everyone that Hassan was Amir's half brother. Amir feels that Rahim Khan had called him back to his homeland, "to atone not just for my sins but for Baba's too" (p. 226). He seems to believe that finding Hassan's son and bringing him to safety is the way to atone for his past and have a "way to be good again" (p. 226). Overall he seems very confused, scared, and hopeful at the thought of bringing Hassan's son (Sohrab) out of a war zone. -Shafer
ReplyDeleteIt is true that they seem more alike than ever before. I think Amir also feels that he has wasted a lot of time striving to please Baba at the expense of Hassan when he and Hassan could have made a stronger relationship.
DeleteAnna Mitchell- I agree that Amir is feeling very confused and scared. It would be scary to have to finally have courage to stand up for Sohrab and find a way to get him back home safe. It is especially scary for Amir because all throughout the book the reader is told that Amir can't stand up for himself and is not courageous like Baba. I also think that Amir is feeling hopeful at the aspect of being able to repent fully for not just his sin, but for Baba's as well.
DeleteI like the mention of Baba's sins, and how Amir is redeeming himself and Baba. It is fitting that Amir, centered around his mistake in the alley and his quest for fatherly love, will accomplish both in a single act.
DeleteJohn Sorensen
I agree that Baba and Amir were more alike than they thought. At the beginning of the book they couldn't seem more opposite. Just as Amir had hurt Hassan after running from the alley that night, Baba had also "sinned". The two can relate to each other through their mistakes.
DeleteJacob Larkin
I agree that Amir and Baba are more similar than what Amir used to think. Amir thought that he was a sinner when in reality his father had lied and committed the sin that he had said was unforgivable. Hayden Cottle
Delete1. Amir says that his life has been a lie because he always treated Hassan somewhat as inferior to him because he thought Hassan was a Hazara but in reality Hassan was Amir's brother. Maybe if Amir knew this about Hassan he would have acted differently and would have helped Hassan escape from the alley or at least maybe he wouldn't have ignored Hassan. Maybe he wouldn't have tried to get Hassan and Ali kicked out of their house. Also, Baba had told Amir that the greatest sin was theft. But Baba had actually committed theft himself. By not telling Amir and Hassan that they were brothers he stole knowledge from them. He stole the way of life Hassan could have had. The one thing Baba had warned Amir above all things not to do Baba had actually done for a long time and that had been steal. So Amir says his life has been a lie because Hassan had been his brother and Baba had lied to them. So in harsh reality his life had been somewhat a lie.
ReplyDeleteThis is a good point. Perhaps the fact that Baba had comiited this "theft" was what encouraged him to forgive Hassan for the same crime. The fact that theft of a man's wife is what created Hassan, his son, made it impossible for Baba to prosicute Hassan for this act. The fact that Amir was oblivious to this is why he could not understand why Baba would forgive Hassan for stealing.
DeleteI agree that Baba's lies (theft) were abominable, but I wonder about his motives. There is a large chance that he merely wanted to protect his reputation, but maybe Baba had virtuous reasons for his lie. Maybe this was an agreement between Ali and Baba, so Ali could have the chance to raise a son. Maybe he thought that Hassan would be tormented enough with him being a Hazara, and didn't want to burden him with the insult Bastard as well.
DeleteHassan reveals that the Afghanistan that they once knew is long dead. He talks about how there is fear everywhere in the streets and it is part of everyone's lives. He tells the story of when his wife, Farzana, goes to the market and gets beaten for talking too loudly. He also tells him about his son, Sohrab. He elaborates on how happy and content he is currently and how lucky he is to be Sohrab's father.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteLaShell- I agree that Hassan makes a point that he is happy and content with his life. Even though Afghanistan is very scary Hassan knew where to find his happiness and that was with his son Sohrab's. Afghanistan was very poor and many people were not fed or did not even have clean water.
DeleteIt seems like Hassan is very happy with his small family, and he seems to be very upset at the fact that his wife was beaten. I agree that he seems very happy to be a father, and he is definitely scared for his family and he relays that in his letter. - Shafer
DeleteI agree that Hassan is happy with the life he is currently living. Even though Afghanistan is worse Hassan is still happy. Hayden Cottle
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteLaShell- Amir's life had always been a lie because he thought that Hassan was just a person the he grew up with but he is actually his half brother, Amir has always felt like he has been treated like the runt of the family or as if Hassan was always better. He then finds out that Baba wanted to make Hassan comfortable and fit in the family because he is actually part of the family. Hassan was always treated better because Baba knew what the story behind all of that was and he wanted to hide it. If
ReplyDeleteAnna Mitchell- I agree with what your'e thinking. It must be quite the experience to find out that you betrayed your actual brother. I also think Amir's life has been a lie because growing up Amir always viewed Baba as a honorable man who lived with dignity. Now as a grown man Amir finds out that Baba not always been that type of person.
DeleteI agree. It's almost like his suspicions turned out to be correct. I'm sure that it was really upsetting to find out that his whole family situation was a lie. -Andrew Larkin
DeleteJacob Larkin
ReplyDeleteAfghanistan has seen a lot of change since Amir has been gone. Hassan says in the very first sentence of his letter to Amir, "Alas the Afghanistan of our youth is long dead." Hassan goes on to describe the change with "the killings" or "fear is everywhere". Amir knows the kind, easygoing culture of Afghanistan from when he was young. The Afghanistan Hassan describes in his letter is different. It's dark, and Amir doesn't quite know what to make of it saying that he "read the letter twice". Amir can't believe the change that happened while he had been gone.
Hassan's letter also reveals not only what he thinks of himself, but also of his family. Despite all the darkness and negativity, Hassan is hopeful for his family. He wants the best for his family, he shows this by "You should see how he laughs!" and "I am a very proud and very lucky father." Hassan's hope also carries into his second letter to Amir. He writes that Rahim Khan is very ill and that he is "so worried about this dear man I pray for him every day.'' In Hassan's world, nearly everything is crumbling. Farzana was beat right in front of him, the man he loves is dying, and the city he grew up in has become corrupt. Through all of his struggles, however, Hassan is able to maintain hope. Hope in the people around him, and hope in raising his child to be the best person he can. That is one of the greatest aspects of Hassan.
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In addition to Hassan's tendency to find hope, his resiliency, a similar attribute, is impressive as well. He very well could have become a broken man after the events of his later childhood, but no matter the struggles he faced, he moved forward with resolution.
DeleteAustyn-I agree that there were a lot of changes since they were children. Despite the fear, darkness, and scary experiences that could make anyone lose hope, Hassan still has hope for the future and for his child.
DeleteQuestion 1 - Amir's life has been mentally centered around pleasing his father, Baba. When he was a child, he often felt cheated when Baba showed equal preference between him and Hassan. After discovering that Hassan is actually his half brother, many truths are explained that were central to Amir's life. He always knew that Baba was his father, and Hassan his servant. That made his sacrifice justifiable. But he cannot justify sacrificing his half brother for their father.
ReplyDeletewell said man. I do agree when you said it made his sacrifice justifiable. what those 3 kids were saying about hassan got into amirs head. and I think that if amir knew hassan was his brother he would have acted differently in the situation.
DeleteI agree that Amir thought it was okay to not treat Hassan like his equal. If he knew Hassan was his half brother, his actions would have likely been different. It's understandable when Amir says his life is a lie because if Baba had not lied to him, his life could have been totally different.
DeleteBritney Eardley
ReplyDeleteAmir is led to feel as if his whole life has been a lie when Rahim Khan reveals that Hassan is his half brother. This is because his whole childhood he only thought of Hassan as his servant, or perhaps his friend, not as a brother. All of the sudden it becomes abbundantly clear to him why his own father always favored the servant boy. This revelation explains why his father always bought them them same kites or got Hassan eleborate gifts for his birthday. His father saw Hassan as just as much of a son, or more of a son, as Amir. He feels his whole life is a lie because this secret his father kept affected his entire upbringing.
Lexi Sidlow
DeleteI like how you used the word revelation to express the feeling of a new sight of something or a new perspective that Amir was feeling about the situation.
I very much agree with this and find it extremely hard to imagine how difficult it would be to find all of this out and handle it as smoothly as Amir does.
Delete-Kyle Hamill
Lexi Sidlow
ReplyDeleteAmir is expressing the feelings of realization and he is coming to terms of his life's mistakes. He then realizes after Rahim Khan summoned him back to his homeland, he wasn't only atoning for his own sins but his fathers to because they had done similar things to those who loved them the most. Amir expresses guilt towards the death of Hassan and feels as if he had taken different precautions with him moving, maybe Hassan could have had the life that Amir is given. From the article it states, "I can't go to Kabul, I had said to Rahim Khan. I have a wife in America, a home, a career, and a family. But how could I pack up and go back home when my actions may have cost Hassan a chance at those very same things?" Amir had been living in oblivion until Rahim called him and revealed to him all the things he had done causing Amir to reevaluate his life up until the day he was being nursed.
This is really good! I concur with all of the points you listed, and you used sufficient evidence to strengthen your positions. Your analysis was insightful and contributed to your response.
Delete-Andrew Larkin
Jaydon Short Q4: I think that Amir is feeling a lot of doubt towards himself. He is in a sense trying to justify the things that have happened to Ali by saying "I had not made Ali step on the land mine. But then realizes what he has done. He seems in away seems to create a paradox for him self consisting of alternate outcomes if certain things didn't happen. Amir wants just wants everything to go away and to live in his own "oblivion". He doesn't want to have to deal with all of the problems anymore. Amir specifically says he feels his life has been a cycle of lies, betrayals and secrets.
ReplyDeleteHe also feels a spur of redemption to go and find Hassan's son.
Delete-Kyle Hamill
I agree that Amir has his burdens and wishes to get rid of them, i've seen the book provide many examples as to which why Amir beats himself up so often always having to take the hard road in life
DeleteI agree with this perspective. I think that all throughout Amir's childhood he was trying to make himself "good enough" for Baba and wished for the affection that was shown toward Hassan to be shown to him as well. If he would have known the truth from the beginning much of the heart ache and hard lessons Amir learned could have been avoided. Baba robbed both Amir and Hassan of this freedom and sadly, Amir had to live his life paying for that and his own wrongdoings.
DeleteAmir has always believed Hassan to be a servant. Baba hid the truth from Amir and that has caused amir to be very angry and ashamed. Baba never missing hassans birthday party to baba saying that hassan is staying. Amir is now just finding out that hassan is actually his half brother. So rather then hassan betraying his friend he is betraying his brother. So this is why amir is saying his whole life is a lie. But i can understand why baba didn't tell anyone it was to keep his honor and respect to his name.
ReplyDeleteThis also gave a little insight as to how Baba views both Amir and Hassan as Hassan seems to be a more well rounded figure in Baba's favor.
DeleteQuestion 4: As chapter 18, a riveting ride of revelation, closes, Amir's emotion is apparent. Three successive emotions are portrayed. First, Amir is shocked by his truth of his father's unexpected relationship with Hassan. "But it was true, wasn't it?...Was it too far-fetched to imagine that things might have turned out differently?" The frequent questions Amir grapples with in the first half of the page illustrate his shock. Then, directly following Amir's questions, his racing mind attempts to answer them. "Maybe Hassan would have a home of his own now." Amir's attempts at answering the aforementioned questions, combined with the realization of his guilt and the fast-paced, simple syntax, show that Amir is anxious about his guilt. During this mood of anxiety, Amir is increasingly worried about the consequences of his future actions. "I can't go to Kabul...but how could I pack up and and go back home when my actions may have cost Hassan a chance at those very same things?" Amir's anxiety continues when he wishes "Rahim Khan hadn't called me." That is a strong statement, and is therefore indicative of the stress Amir feels; if he were calm, he likely would have expressed a wish with more nuance, or not wish for that thing at all. But, the anxiety is helpful, as upon recalling the memories of Rahim's call, Amir is driven to his final stage of emtion: ambition and redemption. "There is a way to be good again...A way to end the cycle." Amir's new drive, realized in moment of epiphany, incites his later actions and frames the third act of the book.
ReplyDeleteJohn Sorensen
Jaydon Short
DeleteLet me just start off with wow you are very talented with words! But I really liked how you broke it up into three different emotions and then went into detail and elaborated on those emotions. Your examples from the text are awesome as well! I really agree with what you said and I loved how much you got out of one persons feeling.
Hassan states in the letter that, "Alas the Afghanistan of our youth is long dead." He describes the living conditions and how fear is a constant feeling due to the Taliban that have taken charge. The Taliban seem to be nothing but brutes, racist and coldblooded brutes who attack anything that's seems different from their ways. After describing the state that the people are in he later mentions his family, his wife Farzana and son Sohrab he talks highly of. How Hassan himself brings his son to repeat the memories Amir and him had. Hassan seems to still have a level head about situations and events that have taken place ever since Amir left, according to the letter he did not seem like a changed person but more of a matured figure. He still is optimistic about Amir and his return to him so that gave me an insight to that he still values their friendship.
ReplyDeleteAndrew Larkin
ReplyDeleteIn Hassan's letters to Amir he describes present-day Afghanistan as ravaged by fear and ruled by ruthless savages. This is sharply contrasted by the tranquil Afghanistan of their youth. This further illustrated when Hassan describes when "a young Talib ran over and hit [Hassan's wife] with a wooden stick" (216) after she spoke somewhat loudly in a marketplace. Hassan's letters also portray him as loving, peaceful, hopeful, and cautiously optimistic. This is shown when he states his gratitude that his "wife [still] has a husband and [his] son is not an orphan" (216). In expressing his hope that his "son will grow up to be a good person, a free person and an important person" (218), he continues a trend of enthusiasm he has displayed throughout the novel.
Lexi- I agree with your opinion about Hassan always having hope within him and an enthusiastic side to him. Hassan has always found the good in others even when sometimes they don't deserve his forgiveness.
DeleteBusic
ReplyDeleteAmir's life has been a lie because he has lived his whole life thinking he was an only child and Hassan was just a servant. Now he has found out that Hassan is his brother. Rahim Khan finally told him when he thinks he is going to die because he feels that Amir should know.
Although in the beginning of the novel Amir and Baba both believe that Amir is nothing like his father, as the book progresses the reader is able to see that this perspective changes. Amir was able to face the things that he had been hiding from for so long. He was able to face them the way Baba would have. After finding out about the truth of Hassan being his half brother and the truth Baba had been hiding from him for so long, Amir feels more of a connection to those characters he previously felt superior to. Having Baba as a role model helped mold him into the strong, generous man he became, along with the desire to finally atone for his AND Baba's wrong doings. "Rahim Kahn had summoned me here to atone not just for my sins but or Baba's too."(226)
ReplyDelete-Grace Moellering